Hi,

I've been using ProgDVB for quite some time where I used to use it alone without other programs to minimize conflicts. Lately I've got few other programs that I want to run in the background.

But then I realized the fact that ProgDVB simply wants most of the memory to itself & begins skipping, hanging etc. while working with these programs. Then I analyzed my memory situation & realized that it uses 280mb in total???

I'm aware other DVB software is about the same situation but I still don't understand. How can a 800k program do occupy 120mb physical + 180mb virtual = totaling 280mb memory while displaying a FTA channel???

Even with no channels displaying, it tooks 60mb physical + 90mb virtual = totaling 150mb without doing nothing. I've got 2 satellite full scan list of channels and a custom list of 300 channels. Does these took the memory? Or the codecs, where it doesn't contribute to 150mb situation.

I've no other program that ever reaches these kind of limits... Don't get me wrong, I didn't write these to cricitize ProgDVB. But on the other hand, I really like to know what took that much memory? If you really know what's going on, please do tell me...

Thank you...

Hmm ,i can not reproduce this here..no hanging..skipping (and here are many proggs running in backround)...memory usage (including 128 MB Timeshiftbuffer in RAM) is arround 170 MB...

Virtual memory used by ProgDVB?

So, first of all, how much RAM do you have?

Did you use any tweak tool, that may have 'optimized' swap usage?

ProgDVB should not use a swap file in any way, as that's resulting in severe performance trouble in most cases. Even latest hard disks are far to slow, to handle decoded video data (from the codec).


Basically, ProgDVB.exe should take a few MB for itself, plus engine and active modules.
EPG and - if once activated on a ProgDVB session - TXT will accumulate a certain amount of RAM usage, but that's also just a few MB in total.
'Special' plugins aren't talked about here, some are real memory eaters.

The codec used will need room for around two GOPs, AFAIK.
One that's coming in, the other one being processed for display.
Second one may be fully decoded 8at least partly), then that's quite a big slice.
Codec methods do differ.
Of course depending on source resolution and on the screen colour depth.
32 bit true colour means, 4 bytes per pixel.
If overlay used, scaling is done by the VGA card, means, it's fed by original resolution.
But also possible, to decode to the real screen resolution directly, that's many more pixel data then, by chance.

PMT reading may also add something on latest versions.



So, many factors may be able to vary mem use, compare systematically.
F.e., disable mpeg2 decoding on timeshift panel and compare.
Test with standard audio and alternatively AC3.
Test channels with and without EPG resp. 'what's now' and 'what's next' info.
...

However, RAM need also depends on your OS and on many possible autostart mem eaters, like MS office, IE and more.
Better to wait a couple of seconds on first opening of MS Word, than preloading big parts of it and reserving a big slice of RAM, that can serve you better if available for other stuff on request, directly and without deviation.
Same goes withz a big config of IE, including many plugins and BHOs.
Also some anti virus background protection may eat a lot.
And all those silly automatic update features of lots of software products, phoning home frequently...

Basically, if on Win98 / ME you should think about a minimum of 256 MB these days, better 512 (the maximum that vintage OS can handle).
Any more modern Win version means, the more, the better (within allowed limits of OS and mainboard chipset / BIOS).
MS info on minimum requirements, just a laugh...

First of all thanks for even replying...
And even more thanks for in-depth explanations...

Secondly, with a little bit , this system is XP Pro on AthlonXP 2000+, Asus/VIA mobo, Asus-9200-128mb vid, 256mb Twinmos mem, 120mb hdd and a SS2. I know this system can't be compared to today's systems but it was sufficient enough when I bought it and should be sufficient since I don't use it for any memory intense programs where I do that on a laptop. Due to your requirements for ProgDVB presented @:
http://www.progdvb.com/require.htm
256mb (also all other specs) should be enough where it passes the minimum of 128mb... (is this what you refer by your last sentence?)

Thirdly, I don't use any special tweaking programs for memory/swap other than setting its size to a defragmented fixed amount of 768mb where none of the programs I used requires more...

I use ProgDVB v4.84.2 with EPG & Teletext modules only where I believe these can't be the cause. I have no other codec substitution other than the one that came with ProgDVB itself. I also set to Directshow->Video Renderer where VMR does interlace for me. Lastly the priority is set to High which I believe is the optimum for ProgDVB.

Discarding the programs I'd like to use, I always have Kerio FW and no other significant memory eater; no Office, no IE and no AV. I used Sysinternals/Microsoft Process Explorer for inspecting the memory usage.
Here's the one where ProgDVB is the only application loaded: red for swap, yellow for physical

And here's the one after setting it to 720x576, 256kbps, 1audio channel: Also look at above "peaked physical memory" of 100mb

I understand most of the things you mentioned. And it's also acceptable the memory usage difference between 'channel loaded'-'no channel loaded'. But even without decoding, where some of the things you told are related to this, program uses that much of memory I presented with the images...

Disabling modules with no plugins almost gained nothing. When I deleted channels directory it gain around 10mb mostly from swap. I'm sorry to tell you this but I still don't understand this much usage. In fact I love ProgDVB for its simple interface & usability...

Thanks again...

Just compared with my vintage system:
(Win98SE, P III 800MHz, 512 MB SDRAM 100MHz, Nexus 2.2 in HW mode)

DVBsVCR2 ~ 12 MB
AltDVB 1.07 ~ 18.8 MB
HispaDVB2 ~ 53.8 MB
ProgDVB 4.84 ~ 48.3 MB

...each including necessary / default modules and usual plugins.

Swap file usage 0%...
CPU usage below 10%

really thanx for this explanations

Then I really really envy you...

Mem usages you posted are just great! It makes me felt like a noob...

In short I understand that despite the minimum requirements page, 512mb gives a relaxed usage for ProgDVB (even with specs you posted). And I must tell that even with skippings my CPU usage didn't past %50 ever. So it's all due to 256mb physical memory where I admit I should buy more of it...

Your:

ProgDVB 4.84 ~ 48.3 MB

usage isn't far from what I posted as ~60mb usages shown with yellow circles. But I must ask, are you sure about VM usage? Because I've never seen any application with no VM usage. I only witnessed the ones who try to minimize their VM parts...

Process Explorer is a freeware @ http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysint ... lorer.mspx
where it simplifies the analyze with its powerful interface. But even with 'XP Task Manager', when you choose 'Processes' tab and select Menu->View->Select Columns->Check on 'Peak Mem Usage' and 'Virtual Mem Size' then you'll see even 'System' has around 50k VM part. Maybe and it's a big one, we both refer to different things talking about 'Virtual Memory' and 'Swap File Usage'. But AFAIK they're both the same thing. Please do correct me if I'm wrong...

I really don't know ProgDVB internals and I think memory consumption due codecs is the difference between [memory-channel-selected] minus [memory-nothing-selected] which is ~80mb due to images I provided and say that's normal. But it's an enigma where 60+90mb went with no decoding. I mean, does the simple 'window/forms' part of ProgDVB took that much? Or codecs took a part without decoding anything? Yet not to forget DirectX and things that are not so obvious to me?

I know I tired you enough and I really am sorry about it. If I were you, I would have already said "take it or leave it". And thank you for your responses, I've done with asking...

Despite 'my' problem, ProgDVB is just 'great' and I salute all who contributed to its existence. The non-commercial approach with dedication has won our heart for many years. Thank you for great job done...

Now ProgDVB5 not release and of couse can have many memory leak. But I am not know how detect leak in .net.

Other point then .net version of interface request real more memory.

@ t1470258

We're all here, to try and help each other PLUS to learn a lot.
At the moment, due to recent mainboard exchange and HDD reorganisation, I don't have a NT based Windows running on my DVB machine, so I just can't compare directly.
Nor would I call myself an NT related stuff specialist...

Under Win98SE (including all the patches, even the inofficial updates from nandlstad.com / creopard.de - sorry, only for german version) I'm using Norton SystemWorks for most technical aspects.
The mem amounts I've mentioned include all DLLs and stuff, the executalbe plus engine need around half of that. The other half goes for DD, plugins, whatsoever. I can choose to include or seperate DLLs and alike, for mem usage display there.

But, due to plain HW mode, no codecs involved here.

Regarding virtual memory, to be true, I did not directly refer to that subject, as that's far from important for me, normally.
Will have to read and learn more on this, once I find the time.
However, things will surely depend on CPU architecture and OS, so supposingly not to be compared in any way. Different mem page control methods, differnet results...

Surely will need a week or two, before I will be able, to continue Win2k based testing, including .net versions. At least...

Ok, my comment on this is as follows:

Old Configuration:
Hauppauge Nexus-s (Technotrend Chip)

ProgDVB 4+5 without Problems, but Timeshift wasn't working. (Greyed out)

New Configuration:
Hauppauge Nova-HD-S2 (based on HVR 4000)

Used Drivers: BDA

ProgDVB 4.72:
Works without Memory Leak.
Get short freezes (500-1000 ms long) every few minutes. Doesn't depend on how timeshift is configured.
When setting Timeshift to ~10-20 seconds back to the actual Program, so that I see the Program 20 seconds behind the actual Program, I have no freezes.
Otherwise Program works correct.

ProgDVB 4.85:
Same as above, but sometimes freezes completely.

ProgDVB 5.00:
Same as 4.72, but with memory Leak. Every few seconds, a few MBs of RAM until it's full. Then it fills the swap and later it crashes.

My TV Card works correctly with the Cyberlink Powercinema 4.7 without freezes, so it's up to ProgDVB.

Maybe it's timeshift?

PC:
AMD 64 4600+
2 GB RAM
Windows XP SP2 and Vista x86 (for testing purpose)

If you need more information, feel free to ask me

Wierd that the oldest version seems to work at the best.

Nexus can't do timeshift on Windows systems, due to nasty firmware limitations.
On Linux VDR that's possible, even in plain HW mode.

Anyway, AFAIK you can install ProgDVB without timeshift active.
And perhaps you have to increase all (timeshift) buffer settings step by step.
This might also increase (switching) delay, so try to find an optimum.

I can install it without timeshift, but when I start progDVB, its always on and I can't deactivate it!

Nevertheless, why using a newer version, when they have bugs, if the old one works correctly?

No question, never change a running system...
..if you don't really need any of the later changes.

I have many versions installed over here, using the latest working one for watching TV, recording and, of course, testing.
But for two reasons I'm using old 4.75 for playback:
- last one without the nasty playback slider bug (over here)
- last one that plays all my recordings. Strange enough, almost half of my MPG recordings, of any age, don't play on newer versions. Wasn't able to specify any technical difference resp. reason up to now.

Hope Prog will once be able, to really fix all the old bugs (means, wipe out instead of quick and dirty patch).

Another issue, since the beginning of the modular structure, and around the time the card restaring option was taken out, ProgDVB doies not initiate my tuner properly every time, working fine either immediately after boot, or after a warming up period of about half an hour.
Even effected other DVB applications after occuring in a windows session, being started after ProgDVB failure, those had to be restarted more than once, or have the firmware reloaded, to reactivatew the tuner.
Half ways a hardware issue of the SS1, I'm sure.
Strage to find out, that on modern later 4.8 versions, an important chage was introduced. All the years before, also after stopping file playback, the tuner won't restart without restarting ProgDVB. Bbut since 4.8, after stopping a playback, (re)selecting any station does bring up the tuner properly (again). This also works well and at once within that period of warm up I've mentioned.
So I've placed a pretty short mpg sequence (that also plays on all versions) directly in my personal folder (which is fixed standard starting folder on play selection dialogue, as we know), to need as few as possible mouse actions.

This means to me, first tuner initiation at opening ProgDVB is temperature depending, unreliable somehow, but restarting tuner after playback works 100%, under all circumstances. Possibly some weird timings...
That's valid for my Nexus 2.2, but also for an older Galaxis SS1 rev. 1.3, and happens on all (old) mainboards I've tested on up to now, from PII 400 on i440BX to Durom 2000+ on a SiS 710 (?) with DDR RAM, both in Win98SE and Win2kP.

No other DVB applications ever showed any trouble like that, and I've been testing a real bunch over the years...

Well, I could not send my machine to Russia for testing, nor invite prog to my place, even if I liked to...

And there aren't enough debug features in ProgDVB, to get any closer to the source of this.

However, ProgDVB still is my favourite DVB application, and you may remember me fighting for the W9x compatibility, that was already given up around 4.5.
So all I can do is wait and hope, as usual...

And keep alive and working what's fine, and try out on all what's coming up, in parallel...
And keep on wishing all the features other applications already provide, like SS1 hardware mode timeshift (in VDR), option to reinsert TXT to the TV out (like in VDR and DVBsVCR2 and AltDVB) and more like this.

Best regards

Juergen